Controverted PointAtthi rūpaṁ rūpāvacaranti? Theravādin:Then you must describe matterin terms descriptive of (i.) that is to sayas seeking attainment inJhāna, as seeking rebirth on those planes, as living happily under present conditions, as accompanied by a mind that seeks that attainment and that rebirth, and that lives in that happiness; as coexistent with such a mind, associated, conjoined with it, one with it in genesis, in cessation, in physical basis, as having the same objects before it …and you must describe matterin terms descriptive of (ii.) that is to sayin the same terms as we apply to (i.). But is not the contrary true as to both (i.) and (ii.)? …Āmantā. in terms descriptive of (i.) that is to saySamāpattesiyaṁ upapattesiyaṁ diṭṭhadhammasukhavihāraṁ, samāpattesiyena cittena upapattesiyena cittena diṭṭhadhammasukhavihārena cittena sahagataṁ sahajātaṁ saṁsaṭṭhaṁ sampayuttaṁ ekuppādaṁ ekanirodhaṁ ekavatthukaṁ ekārammaṇanti? in terms descriptive of (ii.) that is to sayNa hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Andhaka:But is not matter which is due to actions done in the world of sense-desires called “belonging to” that world? If that is so, then matter due to actions done in either of the other worlds of existence should surely be called “belonging to” either the Material Heavens or the Immaterial Heavens.nanu na samāpattesiyaṁ na upapattesiyaṁ na diṭṭhadhammasukhavihāraṁ, na samāpattesiyena cittena na upapattesiyena cittena na diṭṭhadhammasukhavihārena cittena sahagataṁ sahajātaṁ saṁsaṭṭhaṁ sampayuttaṁ ekuppādaṁ ekanirodhaṁ ekavatthukaṁ ekārammaṇanti? Andhaka:Āmantā.